Later Johanan had a private conference with Gedaliah and volunteered to kill Ishmael secretly. “Why should we let him come and murder you?” Johanan asked. “What will happen then to the Judeans who have returned? Why should the few of us who are still left be scattered and lost?” But Gedaliah said to Johanan, “I forbid you to do any such thing, for you are lying about Ishmael.”
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